Honoring Heroes: The Tuskegee Airmen and Their Enduring Legacy

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:00:14

Good afternoon. I'm excited to be here for, the last episode of Talkative County for the month of February, Black History Month, which is all about American history. Therefore, we are today I'm excited to, note that I have mister Gregory Edmonds here, president of the Tuskegee Airmen Ohio Memorial chapter. How are you doing, sir?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:00:43

I'm fine. Thank

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:00:44

you. This guy is a wealth of knowledge. You would think that this guy was in one of the red tails

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:00:56

to the

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:00:56

extent that he knows his history on, the honorable Tuskegee Airman. Tell us, a little bit about what quenched your thirst, for the history of the Tuskegee Airmen and, you know, everything they've meant to aviation and military service.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:01:21

Well, when I had first heard about them, I was taking a black studies program in college, at Seton Hall University in New Jersey, where I grew up. And but prior to that in high school, I was never exposed to African American history in that light. It was always with the civil war and slavery is about pretty much all I heard. So imagine going to college and all of a sudden you getting into a studies program that says, oh, no. We participate in a lot more different areas in positive roles. And so the Tuskegee Airmen was part of that, mention in terms of study. So, I didn't get too in-depth with them as I did for other subjects like the black cowboys and the buffalo soldiers, but we moved to Toledo, and I found out about their national museum in Detroit being only an hour away, then I decided to take a group of Boy Scouts up there in, 1995, add to their national what was then their national museum. And that was founded by mayor Coleman Young, who was then, mayor of Detroit, First African American Mayor of Detroit, who was also a Tuskegee Airman.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:02:35

He was a bomber pilot. So when I brought the boys there, they, of course, they jumped all over me and said, hey. We need young fellas like you to help us, with our legacy in terms of spreading spreading the knowledge. Now when they formed chapters in 1971 in Detroit, it was only the membership was restricted to documented original Tuskegee Airmen. So they had just had the national chapter and then areas had their local chapters, but you had to be an original in order to be a member. Then as their numbers decided, shrunk over the years because of age and other things, they decided to open it up to active military personnel and civilians like myself. So, that's when I was able to join in 1995 when they asked me to.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:03:24

Do you know what led the late Coleman Young to politics to be in the first mayor of the city of Detroit?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:03:34

I know that.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:03:34

Time, it was a Yeah. It was a a grand city at that time.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:03:38

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:03:40

You know, the big three automakers Mhmm. Large population.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:03:44

Mhmm.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:03:45

It's been through some tougher times since then.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:03:48

Mhmm.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:03:49

But he was there at at just the height of Detroit's pride.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:03:54

Mhmm.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:03:55

I just remember as a kid growing up in Michigan on the other side of the state Mhmm. Everybody knew who Coleman Young was. He was just this larger than life figure, but I never knew that he was a Tuskegee Airman in a Bonaparte.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:04:11

Mhmm.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:04:12

That's just amazing. You know, when you for for someone growing up in Michigan, the late Coleman Young was, like, Ohioans talk about the honorable Carl Stokes Mhmm. Yes. Who was the first black mayor in the city of Cleveland,

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:04:29

I believe.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:04:29

Mhmm. Yep. You know, as a kid growing up, I know I heard all of those names. Never thought I would be anywhere near politics, actually.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:04:37

Mhmm.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:04:37

But, it's it's just funny how I wonder how what led him of you did you have any background

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:04:44

on what led him in politics? Civil civil service, you know, remembering all that he came through, and I recited that story about Freeman Airfield in Indiana where they were stationed before they got to their last airbase at Lockbourne, now Rickenbacker, and they had the Freeman Field incident where, the Tuskegee Airmen, they were all first or second lieutenants outside of being a captain, and, of course, Colonel Davis. They wanted to go into an officer's club, and they were refused admittance on Freeman Airfield. And several of them, including then, including Coleman Young, pushed past and said, we're gonna go in there. We're gonna have our drink. And they did. And they ended they were, they were slapped about it in terms of saying, well, you were insubordinate, and then we're gonna, court martial you. And they were, and it was put on their record. And then after that happened, then they were transferred to, Lockbourne Rickenbacker because so we gotta do something with these guys.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:05:47

We don't wanna keep them here. So then that's when they came to Ohio as their last base. And then, when they they got here and, of course, they came with colonel Davis, and colonel Davis, you know, still was their commander here. Okay?

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:06:03

Which makes a lot of sense that they they should have been in Ohio in the first place. North Carolinians would debate me on this, but Ohio first in flight, right, Patton Air Force Base, and all that came later. So

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:06:16

Well, don't and don't forget Michigan with Selfridge, Air Base. We got Tuskegee Airmen station there. And the fact that you had the Detroit chapter, which was the largest chapter at that time. And that's where I got, when when Coleman Young said then when he was mayor, he said, you know, we need to house our stuff in a place where people can come see it. And not just everybody got it packed in a trunk here and there. Mhmm. So then that's when he got one of the buildings in the old Fort Wayne section of Detroit. And it was a brick building, two stories, and he turned it into their own museum.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:06:52

And he that's when they started housing and collecting Mhmm. From all over the place. Mhmm. So it was housed there. And when so when I joined the Detroit chapter, they had a their own speakers bureau where the fellows would if you you know, in terms of getting asked to come out and speak here and there, they had a formal way of being asked and then going out whether no matter what it be, schools or whatever. So when I joined in, I became a what they like, you know, here, a docent, where people would visit. I would come I'd drive up an hour from Toledo and take them around as well as being a member of the chapter. So that's how I got my knowledge, a lot of knowledge during those years.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:07:34

And I I I wish I could ask you more about black cowboys because you say you know even more about black cowboys and buffalo shows. COVID.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:07:42

And but then, like you said, Michigan has got a rich history. You've got you've got not only the Detroit chapter, the original chapter, but now you have the Macon chapter, which was named after Richard Macon, who was, one of my mentors as well with the original Detroit chapter. So they're over around Livonia. Okay. Yeah. So you still have you have two chapters up there now.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:08:02

Two chapters.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:08:03

Yep. Yep.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:08:04

So that leads me to your my next question. Talk about the mission of the Ohio Memorial chapter and and what you and your organization Mhmm. Does to keep this legacy alive.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:08:20

Mhmm. Well, it started even right back then when I first joined the chapter and that they said that, you know, because originally, when they formed those chapters in 1971, it was about people asking, hey. We wanna hear you guys and all that. And they they they're all original. So they would go out and tell the story about what they went through. But then as the years went on, they started to, realize that, you know, we're not getting any younger, so we have to pass on our legacy. And our legacy is going to be passed on through having youth programs. And then this is why that started to mushroom.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:08:59

And in conjunction with the organize what the it was then called the Organization of Black Airline Pilots, now it's called the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals, They partner with them to foster, camps, youth camps for boys and girls to who were interested in an aviation career. So that, they want to say, this is how we learn coming up, and this is how we want that to continue in terms of the legacy. So the Ohio Memorial chapter is, has our Buckeye Tigers program there where we take youth ages 12 to 18 every second week in July, and this will be our seventeenth year, to expose them to various places like NetJets. The we have a partnership with the Columbus Police helicopter division. Mhmm. We take them to John Glenn Airport and meet with their personnel, and they talk different jobs connected with the airport. We take them to Wright Patt Air Force Base And Museum, and they talk about careers. They can't wait to get them out there in these places, especially with the military bases because they say, oh, yeah.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:10:05

Yeah. Yeah. If you're 16, 17, 80, we will pay for your college and and that. Okay? And all that. So because they're not it's not all about being pilots because there's so many different careers in aerospace. So you and like I said, with the Tuskegee Airmen, like I said, we got the mechanics. As I said, a mechanic has said, if you see a plane in the air, mechanic put it there. Imagine where it would be without that type of skill.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:10:27

You have even if we we even have the flight attendants come up and speak, because that's all part of this. A pilot just doesn't come in, get in the cockpit, and off he goes. No. There's many parts in segments. So when we have our youth come in, we expose them to this, the engineers and the cybersecurity people and all many, many careers that you don't hear talked about commonly. K? So that's that that continues their legacy in our in our eyes.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:10:55

Eyes. You don't think about those mechanics until you sit on the tarmac longer than you anticipated, and they make an announcement over this, the the PA system that, something needs to be tightened up or loose or something that needs to be adjusted in some kind of way. Exactly. Then all of a sudden you think, okay. Well, that mechanic and what those mechanics are doing.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:11:16

That's right.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:11:16

Yeah. Your people trying to look out the side of the window to see what's going on.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:11:19

That's right.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:11:21

Yeah. I mean, I know the the I'm a big fan of the Buckeye Tigers. And, I I went, and spoke with them and happened to meet I was a individual there from Boeing

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:11:35

Mhmm.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:11:35

Individual from Delta Mhmm. And I think it was the individual from the air force. So they had these kids had all that this could be you right in front of your face.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:11:46

Exactly.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:11:47

People that look like them talking about aviation as a career.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:11:51

Exactly.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:11:52

It's just I mean, I can't say I can't say enough great things. You take donations for buckeye tigers. You got a number or something. We're giving them. Is real.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:12:00

We we we do for anyone else. Yeah. I know we we appreciate the support of the of the Franklin County commissioner's office, over the last few years. And, we, otherwise, we, you know, for individuals Enthusiastic. So we we get that

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:12:14

You know, we enthusiastically support Buckeye Tiger.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:12:17

Yeah.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:12:17

But there are so many people out there that, you know, because it's not something that, you know, you see every day everywhere.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:12:27

No. No. You don't. No. You don't

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:12:29

see these type of programs.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:12:30

No. That's why we make it a point to get the word out to involve as many kids. And we have we it's not like the, the children, youth come through and they say, okay. Bye. See you. Several of them come back. They they they they like it so much that they do come back to do it again to get some other learning aspects of it. This last class, we had two of them that we paid as youth volunteers.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:12:57

Okay? So that we had 30 kids in our last one, and we split them into teams of 10 where they name their own team. And then they're sort of, like, graded during the week for doing what they're supposed to do when they're when they're asked to do something, and they get points. And then when we go to Don Scott Airport for them to co pilot a plane, that's when they have their graduation ceremony with their parents and relatives. And then we award the person who's accumulated the most number of coins or points, and that person is named the ace of the week, and the runner-up is named the wingman. And for the last two years, they've been female. Okay? Imagine that. Right? So like I said, in the tradition of Bessie Coleman, it's just taken over right away. Right? So

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:13:45

let's let's let's let's talk about the great, women of color Mhmm. That have been involved in aviation, in in its history and serve significant roles.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:14:00

Alright. So, Bessie Coleman few.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:14:01

I know Bessie Coleman. Yeah. Yeah. You know Bessie

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:14:04

Coleman, being, having to go to France to get her, pilot's license, because she was refused to to to get it here. She came out of Texas. She was, the first African American and Native American woman, to get a pilot's license, but, again, had to go to France because she was told no. But the thing, again, that we impart upon our youth, you don't take no for an answer. She could have just said, oh, well. But no. She said, no. I will fly, and I'm gonna seek any means to do that.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:14:36

And that's why she went overseas as well as the first African American male, which was Eugene Bullard. Coming back to the females and Willa Brown starting her, aviation school in Chicago with Cornelius Coffey, to train many of the men who would later become Tuskegee Airmen. So it was it was a woman that started, and Bessie also had her, her her own school. Okay? So then out of that, you have many, many other women pilots like I pointed out in our, my presentation of Madeleine Swagel being a first navy pilot. And there are there's just so many other examples of women. Now, again, the percentage of commercial airline pilots being women is less than 2%. Yes. The first African American women.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:15:27

And African American in general is 3%. Okay? But and and and this is 2025. Twenty '20 '5. How many years after after World War two? Eighty years at the end of and and this is what we're still faced with here. So, again, we still have much hill climbing to do. And, yeah, but we're gonna do what we can. Yeah. We're gonna do what we can.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:15:56

I think there are, there are still there's significant obstacles out there. And I think that's really what just blows my mind thinking about the accomplishments of the Tuskegee Airmen. One, they had to be exceptional to even be considered to be in a segregated unit and to be, the subject of racism and to be thought of as not being as good as. But you couldn't even get in unless you had a a mid entry level amount of college education. You had to have that highest test scores. You Right. Just to be considered at that day and time.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:16:41

Right.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:16:42

And then yet when they got in, they had to have, a sense of gratitude to just, I'm here. This is my opportunity to fly Right. Despite the systematic racism they were facing, discrimination they were facing, they wouldn't they would never be treated like their their counterparts. They are doing the same thing, even less decorated in a lot of cases. Right. Could never dream of supervising anybody else, except amongst themselves.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:17:15

Yeah.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:17:15

Talk a little bit about what you've learned about just how systemic that was inside of the air force at that time pre integration.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:17:26

Well, it was, then called the Army Air Corps, and they were, again, confined to that, Tuskegee Army, Tuskegee Moton Airfield down there in Tuskegee, Alabama. They were not even allowed to fly over Tuskegee, Alabama

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:17:43

because the townspeople said, we don't want to have

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:17:44

to Alabama because the townspeople said, we don't want to have to look up at you. Think about that. Now here they are being trained to fight the Germans overseas. Now they didn't go to the Pacific Theater. They only went to the European theater. But they were trained to fight the but yet, we don't want to be associated with you in any way, shape, or form even as much as have to look at your planes flying over our town. So imagine that. But I always say, throughout history, going all the way back to the revolutionary war, right up to present day with people of color, it's always been love of country.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:18:20

It's all that has always been the common thread is love of country. That's why we always say it's not just black history, it's American history. Because you take that you take away that that participation, where would we be as a country today? And a lot of, you know, people a lot of people in ethnic groups contributed to that. But, again, they, you know, even like you said, in the face of not being able to go into town and to go in those bars and then, you know, like, the Buffalo Soldiers couldn't go into town in saloons, and they would be in fights and and all that, but they wouldn't back off either. So, you know, but they they still wanted to serve. Still wanted to serve. Even though you come home, you had some of them had to take their uniforms off if they went down south, you know, after World War two because they would get they could possibly get lynched. And yet here they are, having fought for this country to continue this freedom.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:19:12

You say, wow. How could you but, again, they said this is our land. It's not his land. That land is our land, and this is why we we lay down our lives to defend our freedom, whatever it is, whatever it looks like. And, hopefully, we'll still get more breaks.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:19:30

How much patriotic can you be to get in a plane and drop bombs and risk being shot down? There is I mean, there and pay the ultimate price. You can't have the show no greater amount of patriotism than that. And and one of the quotes out of the the video during our presentation earlier today, that quote at the end was priceless where one buffalo one Tuskegee Airman was saying that, his friend told him that America is not perfect, but I'm a hold her hand until she get well. Exactly. America is not perfect. I am gonna hold her hand until she get well. Yeah. I I I put that one down.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:20:17

I'm gonna keep that one. Mhmm. And I'm a big I'm a big quotes person, and, I'm a go back to that one. That one there is Powerful. On point. That is powerful.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:20:27

It's powerful. Because they didn't have to do it. They could've just said, you know, you you don't you don't like me. Why should I fight for you? Right? You know?

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:20:34

In the toughest of times, African Americans have always held on and believed in America's promise Exactly. Even it wasn't with no evidence that it was gone Yep. Ever come to fruition. Mhmm.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:20:47

Yep. They still say we still believe and we're still gonna fight and because this is still our land. This is where we are.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:20:54

Still seeking a perfect union. Yeah. With 2% of all the pilots.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:21:01

Of all the pilots. Yes. Only 2% of African American.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:21:05

You still you still you still holding on. Mhmm. Talk about, you know, we've been touching on this, but I wanna elaborate on it some more because we can't enough. Why is it important to keep having these conversations so that future generations are inspired by this?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:21:29

Well, because, you know, obviously, every generation is different. But, again, I always bring it back to our youth and what they have to look at in terms of motivation and saying that I don't wanna quit. I should keep going even if someone puts a puts a roadblock in your way. You know how to go around or fly over like the Tuskegee Airmen did, fly over that roadblock that says you can't do it. And that's why I have the expression rise above. Rise above. And don't let anything anyone tell you you cannot do something if if it's positive that you want to do. If you can't go down this path, then we got other paths we can take to get there.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:22:11

Because certainly through history, that's been proven to be true. That they didn't they didn't just say, no. I'm gonna go, alright. I'm gonna go get into a fetal position, and that's the end of it. It kept on going. It kept on finding another way. You know? So

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:22:24

Yeah. You you gotta you gotta you gotta have courage to

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:22:28

fight. Exactly.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:22:30

And, you know, that that adversity that that one faces.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:22:35

Exactly. And to not be able to get a commercial, be hired as a commercial pilot for almost twenty years after the end of World War two, even though you fought the Germans and you flew those planes, you couldn't get a job as a commercial airline pilot until 1964. So think about that. Alright? So the war ends in '45, but it took almost twenty years for them to get a job as a commercial pilot.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:23:04

Nineteen

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:23:04

sixty four. Floors and all that and clean out the planes. Yeah. But if you're a pilot and you want to be a pilot, marshmallow, no. The answer was no.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:23:12

You are only a handful of years away from the Civil Rights Act. Exactly. Exactly. Put it in the context.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:23:20

And the gentleman, David Harris, was from Columbus who was hired as the first commercial airline pilot.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:23:24

That was with United Airlines? American. American.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:23:26

It was American Airlines. Yep. He was from Columbus. He passed away, been a year or two years ago.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:23:32

American Airlines.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:23:33

And he was not a Tuskegee Airman.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:23:35

He went through a commercial university type aviation. He had yeah. He had to go through

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:23:42

the pilot. You know, you have to come with your credentials, or they don't wanna know you. You know? So but he did, and I guess as part of that civil rights movement, then they started to start hiring more persons of color, here and there. And he said David Harris said that, what he liked to do because he's had there have been instances of an all black flight crew, commercial airlines, with the flight attendants and the pilots. And at times, David Harris said he would like to take his crew and purposely come through an airport in Dallas, Texas somewhere just to see people's heads turn and eyeballs pop open and not in disbelief. You know? Like, who what? Where's who? They must be from another country or something. But he wanted to make a point. You know, we're here, and this is it.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:24:31

You'll be flying on my plane. Right. So

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:24:34

Right. Mhmm. You know, that's aviation, medicine. There's many fields where Many fields. There's people who have fear Mhmm. Of of diversity. Mhmm.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:24:46

You

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:24:46

know, with all you know, with the talk about, the pilots aging out

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:24:53

Mhmm.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:24:54

Pilots being asked to work be beyond the retirement age, you would think that that workforce shortage would have created calls for inclusion and greater recruitment efforts. Mhmm. But it that hasn't been the case. Other than it has been, you know, it's been talked about as if it thing were are different than what they really are as far

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:25:19

as

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:25:19

opportunity is concerned.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:25:21

That's why the organization of black then organization of black airline pilots was formed to try to get a focus group that can put out some programs to help, boys and girls, to do that. It's just grown from there. So where there are the organization of black aerospace professionals today, so, but it's still you know, they have limited resources. It's not unlimited. You know, they have limited resources, but they do work with the youth programs of the Tuskegee Airmen in order to help fund and pay for transportation costs. And, some they get the t shirts and all that. So

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:26:01

Outside of the Museum on African American History in Washington, DC, is there a separate monument that pays tribute to, the Tuskegee Airmen?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:26:13

Well, you have well, you have out out of the, Air Force Academy, there's there's a monument there. There's some in in Carolina. We have the highway, portion of I 75 Yeah.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:26:26

Where the Tuskegee area I'm just thinking of Washington, DC. You know, there's so many monuments in

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:26:32

Washington, DC. I I don't I'm I'm not familiar with any other around there. Not to say there isn't, but I'm not familiar in the DC area per se outside of the which which is nice. I saw that back in November again. I had my mother with me, and she was 99, and she really enjoyed that. So they and they do a nice job.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:26:54

Yes. They do. They do a they do a nice job at

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:26:57

the beginning. DC, no. Here, you know, you have National Veterans Memorial Museum. Yeah. You also have the, National Museum of African Afro American History in Xenia.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:27:08

Mhmm. Yeah.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:27:09

They have a nice, exhibit on double victory if they haven't been out there. So and, of course, like I said, in Detroit, you have the national, or we're in a wing of the Charles Wright Museum of African American History. They have, that's where Coleman Young's place moved.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:27:26

So much is is, on social media, different Mhmm. Social media channel channels. Mhmm. Do, does your organization have a presence there to

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:27:36

amplify your organization? Yeah. We have a Facebook page, and, I gotta get our Instagram page up and working, but we have a web website as well. And, tuskegeeairman0mc.com. And we have buckeyetigers.com, for those, wanted looking at our youth program. So that's that's going on. Again, like I said, this is our seventeenth year with the Buckeye Tigers. Seventeen years.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:28:01

That's a nice seventeen years. I'll that you touched a lot of student lives.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:28:05

Yes. We have. Yes. We have. Yes. We have. And it's good to see them. Some of them go on to become pilots or go have other careers in the aerospace industry.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:28:13

Do they get to do these these, flight simulators

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:28:17

Yes. Simulators? Yes. Because we have, one of our instructors, he's a he has a he has a private pilot's license, and he he works for a, flight simulator, company. So we go over that way too and bring the kids, and they really enjoy that. They they can't as a matter of fact, when we brought our Tuskegee, Thomas Newton, here back in twenty three twenty twenty three, Rickenbacker has a flight simulator. And we took him in there, and he loved it. Now he's 95, and he's sitting in there and his eyes as big as saucers.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:28:54

It it is busty. It is just amazing that I as I keep learning, people that live 98, 90 nine, a hundred just happen to be affiliated with the Tuskegee Air. You know? Mhmm. That's that's amazing how

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:29:12

you

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:29:13

know, and life spec life expectancies tended to be shorter. It you know, like World War two veterans that that are are just aren't as many around anymore. But No. If there's gonna be something around, there's chances are they'll be a Tuskegee Airmen.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:29:30

They all they all live complete. Yep. They but it's just a handful, but, and maybe a couple of pilots, but they are I call them the super ajers. You know

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:29:40

what I mean?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:29:40

They they really they take they took care of themselves, and it's it's just amazing. Just amazing to see how long they have have lived.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:29:51

Do you know of any of the Tuskegee Airmen that were members of the Divine Nine and active in black fraternities?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:30:03

Not at the top of my head. No. I'm sure there were I'm sure there were some, but I don't know. What what

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:30:12

would you, if you had to sum up the Tuskegee Air, I mean, and and and and three words or less, What what has stuck with you the most in your time studying?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:30:30

Rise above. Those are my favorite my favorite words, rise above, and that just covers it. And that even though you're getting hit with a lot of dirt down here, I'm gonna go upstairs and get over bow over and above you and fly over that that stuff, that drama, and do what I'm supposed to do.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:30:55

And and, you know, in that in that vein, you know, over overcoming adversity, overcoming obstacles Mhmm. Was a big was a big part of, of their survival, and they thrive, though. It wasn't like, they didn't they didn't any of them survive. They all were thriving individuals. And then it it is at their largest peak, was it a hundred a hundred a hundred pilots at one time?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:31:24

No. Well, 992 pilots were trained. Only a third of them saw action overseas. K? You still had many more, that were trained as support personnel. Okay? And then including the supply sergeant Thomas Newton that we brought back here in 2023. And then you had the engineers. And, also, I don't wanna I forget to mention the Tuskegee army nurses who also served with them, who were first and second lieutenants. So the pilot cadets had to salute them.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:31:59

Imagine that. So they were also part of that. What what they call it overall, that covers the engineers, the mechanics. They they called it Okay? So you were part of the Tuskegee experience. If you were part of the Tuskegee experience, then you're considered, a, a Tuskegee Airman.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:32:19

And because they were segregated, they didn't receive any centralized services, of course. So they had cooks. I imagine they had everything.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:32:26

Yeah. I mean, yeah. That's why they were when they we, you know, we owed those bases when they were segregated, like, breaking back and lock born at the time. You know? They had they

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:32:34

had their own cooks and, you know, of course, you had

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:32:36

the nurses. You had everything else out there. So yep. They

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:32:40

sure did. And I think where did did did most stay here in in Columbus after their time was up? Does history show they went all over the country?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:32:53

They, aft after, the base, Rickenbacker, Lockbourne, integrated in 1949, and so the Tuskegee Airmen having separate units was merged, disbanded, however you wanna call it. Many of them, when they were finished at their tour of duty, they settled in East Columbus area where the Driving Park area that's why and and you have the Eddie Rickenbacker's house out there on Livingston Avenue in Driving Park. And we partner with them too, Rickenbacker Woods Foundation. They also, you have the, we have our meetings out there at the Driving Park Community Center, occasionally. We put on a drone class out at the Driving Park Community Center. Others settled in the Burwick area, Hanford Village, area. So they have a rich, rich legacy of of Tuskegee gear men in in that in that area. So yeah.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:33:51

And they and there's many of them have legacies that even though the numbers of black pilots are small, they have a history of their their kids following in their footsteps.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:34:02

That's correct. Because, again, that's still

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:34:03

their kids' kids.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:34:04

That's right. Because I still because the member again, members of our chapters, you don't have to be saying, oh, you gotta be a pilot. No. Because we have mechanics and engineers and all kinds of people. You know what I mean? As part of the Tuskegee experience. Although, after a while, you weren't required like me to be as an original. You know?

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:34:20

So Mhmm.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:34:21

But we had a lot of people with from different branches too of service, you know, not just air force

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:34:26

Mhmm.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:34:27

That joined these chapters. So, again, they they formed chapters in order to continue their legacy, and their legacy is through youth. The youth are youth

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:34:35

now. Mhmm. I'm gonna venture I'm a venture away from what we've been talking about. It's clearly clearly you love history, but you gotta have some kind of hobbies or sub when you're not

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:34:49

Oh, sure.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:34:49

Studying here. What what's what does what does, miss Edmond like to do for relaxation?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:34:56

Well, I like to like to play tennis, and golf. I always tell the kids, to learn golf, because that's the corporate game. And we taught our our sons to play and our grandson. We said, you may not wanna know how to play it, but you I mean, you may not wanna play it, but you're gonna know how to play it. Because it gets you in a lot of circles, which it has for me over the years, many, many circles. And with the boy scouts, we have the, golf merit badge, so we get them into that. So I do that. And, again, like I said, I play tennis, and then, board games and all that stuff.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:35:37

But I like to and I I'm also I also fence fencing. I also do fencing. I always grew up fascinated with Zorro and everybody else, so I got into that.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:35:50

So you say you're a tennis player.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:35:52

Have you played football? Summery day. Of course. If I play Pickleball. Yeah.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:35:56

Pickleball. Pickleball.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:35:58

No. I don't know. It took me a while to get dragged into that. You know, tennis players, you know, you're saying, ah, that's junior ball.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:36:03

Dumb down. Dumb down.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:36:04

Junior ping pong.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:36:05

You know? You don't

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:36:06

have to deal with that stuff. But, I, you know, I have I have the equipment and all that. I don't I don't play it as much as I used to play tennis, and I I I've scaled back playing tennis. I play more golf now than I do tennis. So, but I I I like the bike ride. I love bike riding, and, so I'll be glad when this weather warms up enough for me to get back outside.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:36:26

You got a favorite golf course you play?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:36:29

Not especially because I'm in a golf group. So, you know, we travel we play different courses. So I I don't I mean, I I have beautiful ones, like, out there Denison or Mhmm. Deer Ridge, those those kind of places. But, Yeah. I I even in business, you know, I used to just take clients golfing and

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:36:46

Yeah.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:36:47

And all that. So and and not and always played a two man scramble, not let them play their own ball and get mad. You know? You gotta say you gotta have a happy client at the end of the round. Like travel? Yeah. I I I don't travel much, but, I mean, I do. Like I said, my wife's over in Cape Town, South Africa, and she'll be coming back Thursday. She's having a ball and enjoying. You know, I always wanted to get there.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:37:14

It's not I've I've been places like, England and, Saint Kitts and whatnot, but I don't travel travel because my mom, you know, being her advanced age, you know, I can can just take off and run around.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:37:28

When you travel, do if you had a choice between the beach or the mountains, which one would you go? Which way do you go?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:37:34

Oh, it'd definitely be the beach. It'd be the beach. It's not even close. I do appreciate the mountains having been out to Colorado, and seen their beautiful mountains. I do and then, you know, of course, with my boy scout stuff, you know, we could be hiking or whatever. You know? And then but the beach is where you can just put that chair out there and listen to the waves and all that, and I do that as myself. Alexa, play ocean sounds. Do that at home.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:38:02

You know, that helps.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:38:04

Bring those bring the ocean to you. Yeah. Be Alexa Alexa.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:38:07

I love I'd love to say that.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:38:09

What's the what do you think? What do you think, AI is gonna be able to do for the future of aviation?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:38:16

Oh, that's a that's a that's a very good very good question. I it's coming. It's here. It's trying to take take take over my my screen. I mean, it's just like, let AI do it. And I'll tell you, it has its benefits. You know, for instance, if we we got short a secretary, and we have our Zoom we have hybrid Zoom meetings, And I'll have I'll put the AI companion turn it on, and it'll it'll summarize the meetings and do the notes and I said, do we I really need a secretary right now.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:38:49

I don't

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:38:49

have to worry about it. It takes that pressure off. So Mhmm. Mhmm. But for as far as they answer your question about aviation, I don't know. Pilots can answer that better than I can, but I think, you know, I I don't know if I'd ever get in a plane, a plane without a pilot, like, a car without a driver. You know? I don't know. I think that's really but but in terms of I think it's gonna be more prevalent with drones, and that's why we teach drones.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:39:18

I don't do it myself, but we have people who do have that. I think that's where you're gonna see less of your piloted aircraft, and now you're using these drones, and that's the AI going on right now. And that's why these kids who want careers, because it's used in private industry and not just the military, should take a look at that as an option.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:39:42

Yes. It's, tech and you you will you will always see more and more technology built into a plane Yeah. To make them safer, make them more efficient. Mhmm. When you think about the amount of jet fuel Yeah. That is used Mhmm. To to especially to fly these big wide bodied jets Mhmm. Internationally.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:40:11

Mhmm. They're using a lot of fluid. And if there's ways to put in batteries to take some of that pressure off, I I can I can see there being innovations and improvements in it in that arena? Yeah. Well, I I've been asking you questions. What what else do you have to add for talk of the county viewers before we wrap up, this episode?

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:40:40

Well, we we I was just talking to, captain Mitchell, John Mitchell, our immediate past president, and he retired from American Airlines as a pilot. And we were talking about all these years and, again, I've been a member of the of a Tuskegee Airmen chapter, first Detroit named Ohio Memorial. I joined Ohio Memorial in 02/2003. We moved here in o two. And I just I always kept up my membership in the Detroit chapter until we moved here. Mhmm. And we were talking about how we keep things going with the Tuskegee Airmen in terms of their legacy as the original slowly move into the afterlife, and how do we stay relevant, in this day and age. And I John and I were talking, and we're just saying that, you know, what keeps us relevant again is our youth.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:41:33

Again, it always comes back to the youth. I mean, we keep them engaged and wanting to go and have careers in aerospace, then that keeps the Tuskegee Airmen alive. Mhmm. And I think that's the that's the that's the attraction. Because, I mean, how well, I saw how many people want or the fact that I'm here now and being exposed to fine people like you you you folks and being able to get up and speak in front of so many different people and groups is is because of their legacy. It's not because it went if it's all buffalo soldiers, no. If it's all black cowboys, no. But it's the Tuskegee Airmen.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:42:09

They still wanna hear him. Their legacy is is so strong that people still oh, yeah. The Red Tails. Especially at the and movies like George Lucas's The Red Tails and then the Tuskegee Airmen before that, with Laurence Fishburne, that helps too to have the media, you know, out there about them. And you still have their legacy in terms of their, their relatives, their sons, and their daughters and grands that I we meet and keeping that alive and not just show pictures on a camera phone. You know? A camera you know? You put it in the flesh, and that's with these kids. Because we they they definitely with our Buckeye Tigers camp, every Thursday, we're out there at Rickenbacker, what? Meeting in our dining room facility with the kids and giving them that history of the base and the Tuskegee Airmen. So it's not like we just have the week and then we don't mention anything about them.

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:43:03

We just say, yeah. You should thank the thank Tuskegee no. We give them the history. It's about the hands on.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:43:08

Yeah. Hands being his hands on. Exactly. Mhmm. Being hands on as

Gregory Edmonds [: 00:43:12

possible And teaching them that that that he said it rose above rose above rose above their challenges.

Kenneth Wilson [: 00:43:20

So They embraced it. You you heard it, folks. Mister Edmond is about rising above, facing challenges, and that's a part of the legacy of the Tuskegee Airmen. I, hope that many individuals will get the opportunity to listen to this podcast. Please encourage your friends, family, relatives to take in this piece of history, if they have not truly been exposed to the life and legacy of the Tuskegee Airmen. And as always, close on talk of the county, do you because nobody else has time to. Thank you.